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Post by Red Eyed Jack on May 6, 2007 0:53:11 GMT -5
Overall I'd place it on par with Spider-Man 2, and while I left the theater thinking I'd just seen a good movie that was worth the cost of admission, I didn't leave thinking, "I can't wait to see that movie again." I don't know if it's because maybe I've become desensitized to all the flash and flare summer movies bring to the table, but it is getting harder and harder to make me go, "WOW!!!"
I've touched on this theme before in other posts, most recently the movie 300, but I'm looking for something beyond the special effects now. It's time Hollywood got their act together on this.
Back to the movie though. The way certain relationships were explored and how certain characters were mishandled kept me from really getting into the film. By comparison, Spider-Man 2 is a shining example of how to introduce and exploit new characters and evolve characters. For instance, Gwen Stacy, is more plot tool than a real character. The Sandman felt like a throw-in for the sake of throwing him in. This isn't to say Thomas Haden Church did a poor job, on the contrary he did an excellent job as the Sandman. I just wanted more though. Topher Grace, did a great job too in the limited role he was given.
As for further disappointments, looking back at the 80s/90s Batman films and then compare the current string of Spider-Man films to that run of Batman films, you begin to see the same mistakes being made by the Spider-Man franchise as was made by the Batman franchise. In Spider-Man 2 Doc Ock dies, and he has been a major villain in the comic forever. In Spider-Man 3 we see multiple villains having to compete for air time.
Then there is good old Toby. I hate the fact he was chosen to play Peter Parker/Spider-Man. He's too geeky, from his voice to his look without the mask. Also he's too short for the role. I wish I could remember who else was up for the role, but this third helping of Toby is killing me.
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Post by shadowfax on May 6, 2007 1:11:11 GMT -5
I think Toby did fine with what he was given. Whoever told him to portray Parker like he was when he embraced the suit, with all the finger points and strutting, is the one who should be killed painfully. That was just fucking embarassing to watch.
Overall, I was disappointed in the movie. It suffered the same fate X-Men: The Last Stand did, as it tried to pack as many plot threads into a single movie as possible and it just didn't have focus. They could've handled the symbiote suit much better.
What they should've done, like I said right after I saw Spidey 2 for the first time, was that he gets the black suit in 3, kills the villain gruesomely at the end and gets rid of it because of it, and then Brock gets it. Then 4 would be Spidey vs Venom.
Speaking of Venom, the way they did him was extremely disappointing. It's kind of sad that the Fox Kids cartoon version of Venom was about 10 times more badass than the movie version. And he didn't even address himself as "We." Just a huge disappointment.
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Elrick
Saiya-jin
TRASHCAT IS NOT AMUSED
Posts: 146
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Post by Elrick on May 6, 2007 1:37:44 GMT -5
Speaking of Venom, the way they did him was extremely disappointing. It's kind of sad that the Fox Kids cartoon version of Venom was about 10 times more badass than the movie version. And he didn't even address himself as "We." Just a huge disappointment. I completely agree, I was highly disappointed in how they portrayed my favorite spiderman villain. Not once did they have Venom say, "We are Venom!". Also, I disliked the actor they used for the role, I don't think he suits Venom, he's not in the least bit threatening as a person in my opinion. Topher Grace did a decent job with his acting, but I just didn't think he was suited for the role.
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Post by Ryan on May 6, 2007 10:42:26 GMT -5
What they should've done, like I said right after I saw Spidey 2 for the first time, was that he gets the black suit in 3, kills the villain gruesomely at the end and gets rid of it because of it, and then Brock gets it. Then 4 would be Spidey vs Venom. No. That's a fucking terrible idea. Then all anyone would be saying about this movie, besides a lot of other bullshit things, is that movie 3 was just a gap movie to the next one. I'm happy this didn't happen. It means someone was taking this film seriously. It was long enough to bridge the arcs of all three villains (not to mention an excellent job resolving Harry) straight to the ending. I wasn't dissapointed with Venom either. There was no choice but to give him limited air time because the movie wasn't about him. It was about Spider-man (as it should be) and his relation to the symbiote. And with the airtime Venom did have, he was pretty fucking badass. And different, thank god. If I wanted to watch comic book Venom or TV show Venom, I'll read a comic book or, get ready for this, watch TV. Same applies to the rest of the movie villains. Movie Doc Ock was my favorite Doc Ock for a reason. KindawishVenomhadthecreepyvoicethough...And no, the movie wasn't perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect movie. TMNT is full of gaps and plotholes and bad dialogue, but it's still my favorite movie of this year. Because there's an incredibly rare chance of ever seeing a shitty movie. The catch is viewer standards. Gah, look, I've got ten extra paragraphs worth of what I have to say on the subject of movies and general audience opinion on them, but this is old hat. To each his own, right? Needless to say, I'm glad I went to see it.
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Post by Ryan on May 6, 2007 10:44:19 GMT -5
Oooh! Love the sig, Adam. Fanboys is kinda (waves hand in side-to-side motion), but I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.
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Elrick
Saiya-jin
TRASHCAT IS NOT AMUSED
Posts: 146
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Post by Elrick on May 6, 2007 12:57:42 GMT -5
Oooh! Love the sig, Adam. Fanboys is kinda (waves hand in side-to-side motion), but I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. Yeah I agree, the web comic is OK, but I laughed for around 2 minutes when I saw that.
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Post by shadowfax on May 6, 2007 20:06:52 GMT -5
What they should've done, like I said right after I saw Spidey 2 for the first time, was that he gets the black suit in 3, kills the villain gruesomely at the end and gets rid of it because of it, and then Brock gets it. Then 4 would be Spidey vs Venom. No. That's a fucking terrible idea. Then all anyone would be saying about this movie, besides a lot of other bullshit things, is that movie 3 was just a gap movie to the next one. I'm happy this didn't happen. It means someone was taking this film seriously. It was long enough to bridge the arcs of all three villains (not to mention an excellent job resolving Harry) straight to the ending. *Laughs* Are you fucking kidding me? It did a horrible job in terms of the villains' stories. The first two movies did a good job of humanizing the villains with enough character exposition, but this one was just horrible in terms of it. All were just thrown in for the sake of them being there. And resolving Harry? That was most fucking cliche I've ever seen, and nothing like what happened in the original story. "Oh hey, we tried to kill each other but now we're good friends again and making wise cracks." *gags* They tried to pack too much into one movie, and as a result, it was all over the place. Wrong. The movie had no focus. It should've been about his relation to the symbiote, but it did a terrible job of that too. Again, the film lacked focus. That's why they should've held off on Venom until the next movie, so they could focus more on humanizing Sandman (or ditched Sandman and just focus on New Goblin) and show the destructive power of the symbiote suit. Instead, Sandman is just another super villain with a super power, and the symbiote makes Peter strut around like Travolta, letting the audience believe it turns you into a flamboyant asshole instead of violent and evil. You assume it'd be criticized as a "bridge" movie because you assume in my idea, the film would stay in its present state sans Venom. I'm talking a completely different movie. Guess what? Not all of the millions of people seeing this movie are you. They haven't read the comic or watched the cartoon. Thus, they will never experience the true awesomeness of Venom. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Venom was not broken at all. And I wanted to see Venom in live action/CGI form. Instead I saw a severely watered down version who only got a half hour of screen time max. I enjoyed the movie, don't get me wrong. But it was a good movie, not a good Spider-Man movie. Given the source material, it could've been, and should've been, a whole lot better.
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Post by Red Eyed Jack on May 7, 2007 10:19:54 GMT -5
I believe Sandman was thrown in for Toby's sake since that is the one villain Toby wanted the Spider-Man to face while he played the part of Spider-Man. I agree with Shadow that Venom should not have been introduced yet. Brock, yes. The symbiote, yes. Sandman, yes. Venom, a resounding NO!
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Post by hooah on May 7, 2007 10:27:11 GMT -5
I liked all of the villains. I liked the movie a lot, while on that. True, the Sandman could've gotten some more development, Gwen Stacy was...unneeded, and Peter's 'the Symbiote ROCKS! emo hair style, go!' sucked horribly (including the dance in the nightclub *shudder*), I enjoyed the movie throughout. And then came the final battle. That was...some of the best tag team stuff I've seen. Not only how Peter and Harry were supporting each other fully, but also how they're best friends. Finally, Spiderman has some support. Shit, I wouldn't mind going to the actual theater if only for those 5 minutes where they're duking it out with the Sandman. Eddie was a little bitch. "Jesus, I got punished for doing bad shit. Please make Peter die. "
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Elrick
Saiya-jin
TRASHCAT IS NOT AMUSED
Posts: 146
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Post by Elrick on May 7, 2007 14:49:19 GMT -5
in the show, Eddie had a little more reason to hate spiderman (he didn't know Peter IIRC) but even then, he didn't want spiderman dead, he just hated him, then the suit got a hold of him and amplified his hatred and made him want to kill spiderman, and it told him he was Peter Parker.
That's more believable, because people don't usually go praying to god to kill someone when they just ratted you out for something you did that was wrong and screwed them over not to squeel on you.
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Post by hooah on May 7, 2007 15:44:28 GMT -5
He also 'stole' Gwen from him, though that's still a lame vendetta.
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Post by shadowfax on May 7, 2007 17:57:32 GMT -5
Yeah "stole". Gwen said they went on one date and had coffee. Somehow that qualifies as "stealing".
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Post by hooah on May 8, 2007 0:42:23 GMT -5
The "" means that there was no actual stealing, except for in Eddie's mind.
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Post by shadowfax on May 8, 2007 11:33:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I was just reinforcing your point
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Post by Loki on May 8, 2007 14:35:39 GMT -5
Shocking, I agree with Fax almost 100%. '
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Post by shadowfax on May 8, 2007 23:08:03 GMT -5
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alphagamer
Saiya-jin
Ok ok I didn't really watch the filler <_<
Posts: 137
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Post by alphagamer on May 10, 2007 1:42:22 GMT -5
well, I didn't like the movie. There were some enjoyable fight scenes but as Shadowfax said, this movie lacked focus. Also, it was just too damn predictable. Mary Jane getting kidnapped again? LAME!
Here's how I would have done the movie. First of all, Eddie Brock would be established as a character in this movie but no Venom. He's a character that deserves a fully fleshed out movie of his own.
Secondly the main villain would be the new Green Goblin with Sandman playing a somewhat minor role who is falling for Harry manipulations.
Thirdly Peter and MJ would break up early on account of an innocent flirtation with Gwen(who would be more fully fleshed out) and Peter's seemingly lack of concern over her career. Peter would start to date Gwen.
In the final battle black suit spidey would take on Sandman and Green Goblin who has kidnapped Gwen. After disposing of Sandman Spidey starts beating the ever loving crap out of green goblin but goblin throws a knife of some sort that cuts the ropes holding gwen and she falls to her death. In a rage Spidey kills the goblin but the realizes he has turned into a monster, and that monster allowed Gwen to die.
perhaps the real climax of the movie would come when Peter rids himself the suit in the bell tower and just as in the real movie it falls below to Eddie.
That perfectly sets up the next movie. Will Peter be able to mend his relationship with MJ? Will Peter be able to live with having just killed his best friend. And most importantly, how will peter deal with Venom. Oh what could have been :_:
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Post by Red Eyed Jack on May 11, 2007 0:42:42 GMT -5
There is only one flaw with that. It would, in the opinions of the general public, be way too dark and they would feel cheated/manipulated if a cliff-hanger of sorts was used. Personally, Alpha, that is the best potential setup for Spider-Man 3 I've heard to date.
That said, it is amazing the movie(s) haven't gone darker since there are a lot of dark themes/story arcs in the history of the Spider-Man comic.
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Post by crago2000 on Nov 5, 2007 21:19:11 GMT -5
I agree with hooah.
I thought this movie was awesome.
But did New GG die in the comics?
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Post by drewsiph on Nov 5, 2007 23:24:42 GMT -5
I think so. However, Norman is still kicking, from what I've heard.
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Post by Ryan on Nov 6, 2007 7:48:20 GMT -5
Harry, I believe, died from a drug overdose in the comics.
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Post by Red Eyed Jack on Nov 6, 2007 17:00:49 GMT -5
I think so. However, Norman is still kicking, from what I've heard. Yep, but its because his version of whatever made him Green Goblin regenerated him. Somehow. >_>
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Post by Mentok the MIND-TAKER! on Nov 6, 2007 19:02:43 GMT -5
If I could use one word to describe the movie, it would be "Bleh". In fact, I would use that same word to describe the second movie, as well. In fact, the only thing I liked about either movie was Bruce Campbell. Everything else in both movies was....bleh, from the villains to the story points. Especially seeing as how Venom, my favorite comic book villain ever, was bent over the director's chair and violently fucked straight up the ass.
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Post by Ryan on Nov 6, 2007 21:16:50 GMT -5
Huh. I thought the second movie was the better of the three.
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Post by Mentok the MIND-TAKER! on Nov 6, 2007 23:04:48 GMT -5
I went into it with decent expectations, as I enjoyed the first movie. However...I dunno. For a movie with such a high budget it felt a bit...low-budget to me. I felt as though the action, acting, and writing had taken a nose-dive in relation tot he first.
Also, I disagree with your point on the whole "movie Venom" thing. Would you have seen it as acceptable had they made Optimus Prime into a total pacifist that merely complained about violence and barely, after MUCH coercion, lifted a hand against Megatron, only to have another Autobot come in and finish the job as Prime moped about feeling "powerless", and the excuse given was "This was the movie Optimus Prime. If you want to see the cartoon Optimus Prime, go watch the cartoon". I don't know about you, but I watch these movies to see big-screen adaptations of my favorite heroes and villains, not to see nearly unrecognizable "creative liberties".
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